Serious Thoughts about the Central Route

Skully. Hi to everyone from rftw. Thanks for the great memories. There are two stories, one a semi trailer, the other the road works. We had passed a semi, and had not yet entered the roadworks area. I cannot recall seeing any forward warning signs. The pack started slowing down under signal, the signals became a bit more urgent, and bikes started stopping, some weaving. The first bike(Right side right lane) was hit from behind, unsure whether the second bike had received a tap from behind also. Those two bikes then flew and landed. Both had a passenger.  A third bike on left side was either clipped or clipped a bike and spun out into left lane(fastlane). The fourth bike in was the tail gunner, who went past me locked up, weaved, and eventually went into pile. Semi we had just passed in fast lane stopped short. I disagree with parade formations, except in towns at lower speeds. After day one I always rode at the back.

Prayers for all have been rising since day one... and they will continue.

OK I have read all the posts here.  The SBS verses Staggered argument has been going on longer than I have been involved in the run.  The serious accident that happened really had nothing to do with either SBS or staggered.  It had to do with a bad decision by one or more riders.  When approaching a construction zone someone decided to try and beat a truck to catch up with a group that was rolling slower than the folks trying to catch them.  Someone hit the brakes, and someone else panicked.  This has nothing to do with how the run rides.  It also had nothing to do with the truck that was on a road that he pays for.  In 2005 when I made my first run I had a hard time with maintaining my interval for the first two days.  But after Kansas City I got it.  You have to be concentrating constantly, and it is not a rally, not a fun ride, it is truly a mission.  I do not enjoy riding side by side, in fact in Kansas my first year a rider went down next to me that would not ride staggered, and who did not have a helmet on.  It was not his fault he initially got hit in the forhead by a small narrow cone, then when a construction worker was sawing the concrete that rider got hit with debris, and went down.  He went to the hospital, but was pretty lucky.  I did not stop riding because of it, I did not drop out of the pack because of it, I just figured out what I had to do to be comfortable.  The further east you go the tighter the pack gets and the pack also slows down to almost ten under the speed limit.  The guy at the front is going 5 to ten miles below the speed limit.  The platoon leaders to a great job not trying to catch the platoon in front of them, there are road guards at all the exits we take, and they do not leave until after all the chase vehicles get off the highway, so the problem is not riding side by side, it is stupidity of racing like a bat out of hell to catch someone that is going 5 to 10 miles an hour slower than the posted speed limit, then jamming on the brakes cause you over estimated the closing distance.  Finally the leader of the pack is rendering a hand salute to those people on the overpasses, riders do not need to watch them, nor wave to them, they need to ride their rides.   Period, and everyone needs to understand that beating a truck so you can catch the pack in a construction zone is just not the thing to do.  The pack will not run away from you, everyone will get where they need to be.  2 seconds at 60 MPH is 176 feet 3 seconds is 264 feet.  That means that you are allowing 4 or 5 cars to break into the pack, and you will just have to pass them, which is even more dangerous than just following the bike in front of you, and staggered is bad cause that car will see you but not the guy on your right..  I know I will take flack for this but It is a mission, not a rally, not a party , not a fun ride, you do not even have to like it.  Like all missions you just have to do it.  I will see everyone next May.  Health and job allowing.  But please for those of you that have just joined do not try to fix something that has worked well for over 24 years.  We do what we do because we have to, and because we want everyone to get there safe and sound.

bounce wrote: OK I have read all the posts here.  The SBS verses Staggered argument has been going on longer than I have been involved in the run.  The serious accident that happened really had nothing to do with either SBS or staggered.... This has nothing to do with how the run rides.

I must disagree with you.  We have always done it this way and it is a mission seem to be the rally cry of the day for riding UNSAFELY.  It is an unsafe ride, period.  It really doesn't matter what formation the riders are in, SBS or Staggered, it is the following distance that makes it unsafe. 20-30 ft from the bike in front of you at highway speeds is and will always be unsafe. 

To say that this accident had nothing to do with the way the run rides is ignoring the obvious.  It had everything to do with the way the run rides.  As it was, there were about 20 collisions that I know about on this run.  Some required trips to the emergency room and others did not. We are fortunate that there were not many more such collisions.  All of us that weren't involved in this or a similar collision were just plain lucky.

bounce wrote:   It had to do with a bad decision by one or more riders.  When approaching a construction zone someone decided to try and beat a truck to catch up with a group that was rolling slower than the folks trying to catch them.  Someone hit the brakes, and someone else panicked.  This has nothing to do with how the run rides. ... ...it is stupidity of racing like a bat out of hell to catch someone that is going 5 to 10 miles an hour slower than the posted speed limit, then jamming on the brakes cause you over estimated the closing distance.

I do not know if this collision was the result of bad decisions or not, because the RFTW leadership seems to be very closed mouthed about these accidents and accurate information is not disseminated to the other riders.  There is little openness or transparency in this regard.

However, I do agree with you that this is the way folks ride on this ride and that it is utterly stupid.  The reality is that if you are in the 5-6 position in the pack that is how everyone  more than 3-4 positions away from the leaders are riding.  Each platoon rotates back there for at least one day and that is just how it is.  It is that "stupid rider" next to you or behind you that will take you out- even when you are riding the way you should. 

An example of this occurred when we went through the toll booth in Kansas.  My platoon was riding in the 6th position.  We had to go through in a single file- I guess so we could be counted.  It was idle speed approaching and going through.  I was monitoring the CB command frequency.  While I was still several hundred yards from the toll gate I heard the pack speed increase to 50 MPH.  After clearing the toll booth 3-4 minutes later the riders in my group were going 80-90 MPH to catch up.  When I realized I was going 85 MPH i slowed to 75 MPH and did not catch the pack for 5-6 minutes.  As I eased into position and gradually slowed I saw numerous riders close on the pack and brake hard to reduce speed.  Some even left smoke from skidding tires and wobbled a little as they slowed.  Yep this was pure stupidity.

But, it would not have been necessary if the lead had maintained 25 MPH until everyone including the chase vehicles had cleared the toll gates. 

With as many riders as we had, even if we all had the same experience, the stupidity ratio will always be quite high.  There is no way to avoid it.  This accident was really bad and just how bad is still in question.  One victim is still unconscious with brain injuries. So someone needs to start addressing it and how we ride before it happens again. 

bounce wrote: 2 seconds at 60 MPH is 176 feet 3 seconds is 264 feet.  That means that you are allowing 4 or 5 cars to break into the pack, and you will just have to pass them, which is even more dangerous than just following the bike in front of you, and staggered is bad cause that car will see you but not the guy on your right..

So if 2-3 seconds is considered a safe distance at 60 MPH the following distance should be 176-264 ft.  Never did I head anyone talk about 2 seconds distance.  It was always 1-2 bike lengths, which is more like 20-30 ft following distance.  And most of the time when we were riding at those distances we had the entire highway to ourselves with a LEO escort.  IMO if we were so concerned about cars entering, crossing through, or interfering with the pack we would consider riding in the number one lane to allow cars and trucks to enter and exit without any need to get into the pack. 

bounce wrote: I know I will take flack for this but It is a mission, not a rally, not a party , not a fun ride, you do not even have to like it.  Like all missions you just have to do it.

 I agree with you here.  It is a mission.  Like every mission there are risks.  The difference, in military terms, between a risk and a gamble, is a risk involves casualties that will not make you combat ineffective if things don't work out and a gamble will make you combat ineffective if things don't work out.  However, we must remember that this is not a COMBAT MISSION! IMO we are gambling here that the skill, experience, and common sense of each rider is the same as ours.

Mission Statement: To promote healing among ALL veterans and their families and friends, to call for an accounting of all Prisoners of War and those Missing in Action (POW/MIA), to honor the memory of those Killed in Action (KIA) from all wars, and to support our military personnel all over the world.

Consistent with this mission statement, on this mission no causality is acceptable, period!

bounce wrote: I will see everyone next May.  Health and job allowing.  But please for those of you that have just joined do not try to fix something that has worked well for over 24 years.  We do what we do because we have to, and because we want everyone to get there safe and sound.

I wish you the best in future health and employment.  I hope all goes well on the ride next year.  Although I will not be joining you on the ride, I will be supporting your mission.  But I would not be much of a man if I did not challenge what I believe is an unsafe ride- no matter how noble the cause.  I was never concerned about the way we ride from my own ability or skill level.  But I rode professionally for 15 years, two up and at all speeds and conditions.  What I was worried about were the riders around me.  There were many good riders in this group that I would be pleased to ride with anywhere at anytime.  There were many, many more, probably the majority, that I hope I am never riding in the same proximity with.  They were just unsafe, at any speed.

So I would recommend, even though things have worked for 24 years, that there must be changes if it is going to last another 24 years. If for no other reason that each year there seems to be more riders than the year before and the skill level might be decreasing with age and inexperience.  Sooner or later another serious incident will result in such serious litigation that the run will be forced to dissolve itself.  Then where will the mission be?

I will close with a quote from the RFTW philosophy.  I hope it is more than just a catchy phrase someone put together.  I hope the BOD and leadership truly believe and are committed to it.

Philosophy: We strive to maintain a safe, supportive and private atmosphere in which all participants can reflect and heal on their journey to the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, D.C. in the hope that they can return home to a new beginning.

I discussed these same issue along the way from RC to Dc with other riders.  There are a lot who are not on this forum and a lot who are but won't speak up on how unsafe they felt. 

Maybe this discussion comes up every year.  If it does, it is really a shame there is no positive changes for safety sake. 

In total agreement Redwing..as I so stated previously, but not so eloquently..But I was an FNG..what do I know..again..very well written.

Well Said Bounce. This happens every year. Trying to fix the way the RFTW rides is a crusade taken on by many of those that get concerned their first year and some that have done the ride before. Understanding the mission is paramount. Realizing that this is not a get together to ride our bikes and have a great time is also something all must understand if they want to be a part of our important mission. If I had my druthers, I would not be going for my fifth year in 2013, I do not like group riding at all and trust very fewother riders, but I am compelled to ride for those that can not and for all of the brothers who we left behind. Learning to ride your motorcycle is priority "ONE".  Could things be done better? Absolutly! Should we make all of the changes our new brothers want. That would be a resounding "NO". This ride is not for everyone and should not be attemted by those that are not confident in their riding skills or those that need things to be just right before they are comfortable, or those that have even the slightest inkling that this is a party. I am sure that no matter what changes might be made, we will always have a large amount of people that think it is not right and can be done better. Both our FNG's and some who have ridden the Run before.

And there you have my 2 cents worth.

Here, Here VCNV68

grizzly wrote: Well said Bounce!    I, would like to ask each and everyone to read the newsletter April 2006 RFTW riding rules. This Run may not be for you! Most if not all of the accidents if not all were caused by Rider Error.

Link to April 2006 News Letter -- a good read.  http://rftw.org/assets/pdf_files/newsletter-2006-04.pdf

The pack also slows at every hill, up or down and while listening in on the CB, when the lead says going to move the pack up 5mph, there will be a slow down, not sure why, but everytime the pack is supposed to speed up, the ones in back slow up. 

Curly I agree with you whole heartedly....and I too do not enjoy the riding, it is work, and when on the Run I get about 5 hours sleep a day, and if lucky I get dinner, but that is not a complaint, I just do things that need to be done.  I do get the chance to talk  to folks at night, which is one reason I do not sleep well, not cause I am not tired, but because when a hero talks I listen, and just about everyone on the Run is a Hero to me.  Thanks for your two cents worth.  Change is good, I have lobbied for some changes, and have actually gotten some of them done.  But when something didn't change the way I wanted it to I did not quit the Run, cause the mission is just that important to me. 
FYI one example, on the Kansas Turnpike the first year I was appalled that we went all the way left and then had to transition all the way to the right, and after three years of asking the question "why do we not just go through the Ktag lane, the system would count the missed tolls automatically and we would be where we need to be to get off for fuel", some one finally said "Darn why did we never think of that?" Not sure if we are still doing it but I sure felt good the first time we did.
So to those who think nothing will improve I will say that you are wrong.

OK climbing off Soap Box now.  Thanks you to everyone that has ever done the Run, those who keep doing it, and if you are going to be an FNG remember the only bad question is the one that does not get asked.
Oh and I reposted my story of the miracle on Angel Fire Mountain, cause I should not be here if not for the Hand of God pulling my bike out from under the wheels of a very large 18 Wheel truck.  Addy is in my signature I think.