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Serious Thoughts about the Central Route |
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Chicken Joe 
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Joined: Oct-02-2009 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 80 |
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 Topic: Serious Thoughts about the Central RoutePosted: Jun-12-2012 at 7:56am |
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I have never ridden the CR, but I do have a comment. I have been the PL for the 7th Platoon SR since 2008 and this year was an Ambassador. None of these positions qualify me to speak on the subject of SBS. But my sweetheart "Flame" has been the PL for the 2nd for the last 2 years. As many of you know 1st and 2nd ride SBS on the SR. Since she discussed her position with me, and I only listen, I have a little understanding of the issue. The big thing created on the SR is you have to have a recommendation from a RG & your PL to move up into the 1st or 2nd platoon. The leadership of 3 through 6 & a RG must observe your riding skills to be able to be brought up and no FNG can ride in these platoons for several days after they join the Run. Therefore the SBS riders should be the most experienced riders. This seemed to have worked well over the years. While PL for the 7th most of the accidents that have occured have been in the staggered platoons. The biggest problem I have seen in talking to a great majority of FNG's over the years is the rider that bought their bike 2 weeks before the Run and are now ready to ride in a formation of 40+ bikes. Most of these riders have had no training whatsoever and very little experience. We shove them in a pack and say "stay in formation". Now the accidents that do occur are not all by these new riders. I have seen old experienced riders in accidents also. As for a solution, Ray, I have none. Hate to say it. Maybe some brainstorming and the 3 Reunions with the riders may help develop a plan the BOD and RC's can work on.
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Compatriot, Sons Of The American Revolution
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OZ
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Joined: Jan-25-2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 323 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 8:24pm |
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2 miles long the way the pack is now, I can see some room between the platoons, for cagers to get in and out, but the pack would be so long it would take hours to get places, plus the gas stops and staging crews would work twice as much.
Maybe there should be warnings for not following the rules, then the second warning would put them back behind the last bikes or last man truck. After a day of riding close and learning how other riders are you can tell if you can handle it or not. I am not too proud to move out of the pack if I feel I am uneasy riding like the pack does. One has to worry about the ride and not whats for lunch or whats on the radio, etc.... I feel safer in a tight knit pack, as long as I trust the riders around me.
But thats just me ....
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world.
But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem." -Ronald Reagan |
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Rich Boy
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Joined: Oct-01-2009 Location: Hawaii Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 8:15pm |
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I think this has been beaten to death on the forum. I AGAZIN respectfully request that if you have ideas/suggestions/solutions that you go to the home page and dowload the 2011 after action (it has the 2012 info on it) and fill it out along with adding ideas and send it to No Trunks. I have faith that if someone comes up with good workable ideas they could be implemented in future runs. The forum is a great way to express yourself but offering ideas and suggestions via the After Action is the best way to have those opions heard and considered and maybe acted upon.
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PapaSmurf
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Joined: Mar-27-2011 Location: Westminster, CO Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 8:06pm |
Thanks for making my point for me. As the old saying goes, there's the right way, the wrong way, the RFTW way, and my way. They look less than professional because so many of them are failing to ride the RFTW way... instead of having a disciplined, accomplished group, you've just got a collection of individuals riding in semi-close proximity to one another. Your suggestions wouldn't fix this... just spread it out over a couple of counties. I too, respect your opinion, as well as your right to express it. That's what this forum is all about. I'm sure we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable... after all, it's a "family thing." Semper Fi, Brother.
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Dave "Papa Smurf" Klemme
Westminster, CO USMC 1967-1992 RFTW '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '10 '11 '12 "Do it for God and it works for good; do it for good and it works for God"--B.C.'s Wiley |
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Princess
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Joined: Apr-26-2012 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 7:57pm |
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Being an FNG in 2012 I would like to say I learned so much... and I am definitely a much better rider. Being an organizer and leader of many local group rides has helped me to read the RFTW riders around me and I came to know some of them well. Each rider has their own style, their own fears, their own skill level and no matter how much planning and preriding is done, there is always going to be concerns. We are all different. Being in Plattoon 3 of the Southern Route we mostly rode staggered formation, but sometimes the situation warranted riding side by side or even single file. I enjoyed the challenge and the cameraderie. The 2 second rule was not always followed due to so many variables and challenges throughout each day. As group riders we learn to read other, adjust to changing situations and remember the mission. Would I enjoy riding side by side? If I have to, but honestly I like having a choice.
Ride Safe and God Bless!
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sls
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n2thex
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Joined: Sep-29-2009 Location: Wichita, KS. Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 7:51pm |
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I dont claimtp have all the answers and each road posses its own challenges. My suggestions wefe intended mainly for their interstate portions of the run.
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The VTX that is!!
First Lady Chaplains ugly half. U.S. Army "Air Cav" God Bless America!! |
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n2thex
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 7:49pm |
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Papa Smurf. I respect your opinion but would encourage you to go to you tube and watch rftw pass under. Not what i consider a professional looking group in my opinion. I ride in honor and memory of those that cant. I could care less what i look like and iam more concerned with honoring those i ride for. If i wanted to look good then o would join a demonstration team and go perform.
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The VTX that is!!
First Lady Chaplains ugly half. U.S. Army "Air Cav" God Bless America!! |
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PapaSmurf
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Joined: Mar-27-2011 Location: Westminster, CO Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 7:25pm |
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n2thex--If your goal is to change the fundamental character of RFTW, then your suggestions have some merit, but I, for one, do not want to see RFTW become what you are suggesting. What follows is a quote from the final paragraph of another of my posts on another thread. It's incomplete when taken out of the context of the whole post, but it pretty well sums up why I would rather start a new Run from scratch, than be part of what you wish to become... "Consider the people on the overpass. We're going to ride under that overpass whether they're there, or not. They came out to see us, not the other way around. But when we do pass beneath them, they deserve to see a well disciplined group of accomplished, dedicated riders, not a rag-tag bunch of weekend wannabes. We owe that to them. And we owe that to "those who can't" ride for themselves. That's why we ride the way we do. Nothing less is acceptable. If this kind of riding isn't for you, then take a place on one of those overpasses." |
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Dave "Papa Smurf" Klemme
Westminster, CO USMC 1967-1992 RFTW '04 '05 '06 '07 '08 '10 '11 '12 "Do it for God and it works for good; do it for good and it works for God"--B.C.'s Wiley |
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Curly
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 7:05pm |
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If you spread the platoons out to far it becomes a logistical night mare. This was proven last year when the road gaurds were instructed that they could not make the platoon leaders close up. We had gaps of over a mile at times and it became impossble for the road gaurds to maintain safety buffers. Some of the road gaurds quit as a result of this. They were having to hold intersections when there were no platoons in sight. It made for some pretty angry cage drivers. And angry cage drivers are very dangerous to us. Having smaller platoons only streches us out even further. 20 bikes to a platoon would make us have maybe 15 or more platoons. A mile apart puts us beyond anything even remotely managable. Do you suggest we do away with road gaurds or have 50 percent of the riders as road gaurds to protect the platoons? The way the run works now is not perfect, but it is the way it works best. Can we do some things to improve it, YES. I hope our BOD is working on these issues now and can come up with solutions or at least explanations to satisfy the masses.
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USN 1965 - 1969
USS Mount McKinley AGC-7 Suck it up !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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n2thex
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Joined: Sep-29-2009 Location: Wichita, KS. Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 6:21pm |
Having ridden with the CR for numerous years I fail to understand what part of my suggestion is unrealistic? Could you please elaborate? |
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The VTX that is!!
First Lady Chaplains ugly half. U.S. Army "Air Cav" God Bless America!! |
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Curly
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 6:01pm |
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This all sounds great for a weekend ride but pretty unrealistic for the purposes of RFTW. |
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USN 1965 - 1969
USS Mount McKinley AGC-7 Suck it up !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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n2thex
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Joined: Sep-29-2009 Location: Wichita, KS. Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 5:54pm |
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Several years ago I was involved in an accident while riding in the trailer platoon with RFTW as we came through Topeka Kansas. I had ridden with the group for several years prior but this was only my second year in the trailer platoon. As with most accidents there were several contributing factors to this crash and if any one of them had not happened the crash would likely not have happened. In my opinion the primary factors as to why this happened are riding too close and too fast. Being at the back of the pack the trailer platoon is always either full throttle or hard on the brakes. Grumpy does a great job trying to moderate this but trying to keep up with the platoon ahead of us who is trying to keep up with the 5 platoons in front of them will always result in the rubber banding. In my accident I was blessed with not going down and only loosing some lighting off of my trailer as I was struck from behind. I had my daughter on the back and the thought of her getting hurt rattled me pretty bad. I rode behind the pack for most of the rest of the run and enjoyed that more than any run before or since.
Having said all this I would offer the following suggestion. 1. The usual lead bikes lead the way. 2. The next platoon leaves two minutes after the previous 3. Each platoon then rides it's own ride 4. At no time shall any platoon exceed the posted speed limit. However each platoon shall no closer than one mile to the next platoon ahead. 5. Each platoon will arrive at the posted stops on their own. 6. Each platoon should be no more than 20 bikes not including the platoon leader and tail gunner 7. The trailer platoon will be no more than 10 bikes long with additional platoons formed if required to keep the proper number in each platoon. 8. Two platoons will ride SBS and all others will ride stagger 9. Riders will chose at registration if they wish to ride SBS and will have the option to switch to a stagger platoon at the end of each day should they choose to. 10. Riders shall maintain a two second interval from the next bike directly ahead of them and a 1 second interval to the bike staggered from them. I believe the above rules will make everyone's ride much safer and might even save someone's life. I believe in a free choice for all and think the above will give all some choice. Edited by n2thex - Jun-09-2012 at 5:55pm |
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The VTX that is!!
First Lady Chaplains ugly half. U.S. Army "Air Cav" God Bless America!! |
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Curly
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 11:26am |
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Thanks for adding those words drmaggie. We do not wish to exclude anyone that truly wants to ba a part of our mission and experience the healing that goes on as a result.
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USN 1965 - 1969
USS Mount McKinley AGC-7 Suck it up !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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drmaggie
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 10:15am |
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Thank you to all who make the RFTW happen. To our Veterans: Welcome home and thank you for your service.
As a non-Veteran, non-motorcycle owner/rider I will add this: for those who do not feel comfortable riding wih the pack but support the Mission there are other ways to assist: advance team, chase vehicles, hydration vehicles, merchandise truck, registration, etc. If your heart is truely into service there is a way for you to be a part of RFTW.
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jimesther1
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 9:52am |
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Thank all you guys for saying what I feel the RFTW means the world to me, it helped me when I was lost. I have always loved this saying "Lead, Follow or get out of the way". Thank everyone who gets us there.
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Whisper
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fahrdawg
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 9:05am |
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Curly - you are so right. The rides we do make a world of difference, at least for me.
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We ride in memory of Arthur Staub - WWII Navy - USS Healy (DD 672) - 24 Nov 1926 - 5 Dec 10 & SSgt James Duane Foltz Sr. 26 Jan 1933 - 26 Jul 1969 -USAF - RIP our Fathers
USAF 10 Apr 73 - 31 Mar 97 |
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Curly
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 9:03am |
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By the way Pelican,
You contribute to the solution just by the attitude you seem to have and the understanding that the best way to experience something is to stand on the shoulders of those that have gone before us.
You are in very good hands with the leadership we have on RFTW and all the riders who "get it". Being among others who have had similar experiences to ourselves can help heal years of strife and regret. Not often right away, but as they say the longest journey begins with the first step.
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USN 1965 - 1969
USS Mount McKinley AGC-7 Suck it up !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Curly
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 8:54am |
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Pelican,
It already sounds like you are serious about being a positive part of the RFTW by taking a course that will better help you understand your motorcycle and your ability to ride it in different situations. I have been riding since I was very young but still take an ERC course every other year along with getting out and practicing what I have learned to keep my skills sharp. Many of us here in Colorado get together quite often just to paractice riding side by side in groups. It proves to be time well spent. The run can be an experience you will never forget in a very postive way as long as you keep your mind on the mission. Of course it is always possible to have things happen beyond your control, but if you prepare yourself as well as you can the odds begin to fall in your favor.
Welcome home.
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USN 1965 - 1969
USS Mount McKinley AGC-7 Suck it up !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Pelican
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 8:22am |
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Thank You Shadow, Bounce, Curly, PapaSmurf, SageOwl, and all the rest who post here. I have been reading everything, going back into the archieves, watching all the videos and going to all the links mentioned. I keep surfing the RFTW website and am always finding new information. I know I will have a ton of questions still come up as the 2013 date approaches. The patience and understanding I am feeling from all of you is unbelievable. I have picked a RSC to enroll into that is only an hour or so away, I plan on taking that soon, and maybe another before RC, (depends on how this one goes), I am never to old to learn, but when I am, then I will be fertilizer,lol.) I do not want to be part of the problem, but do not know if I can contribute to the solution either. Thank you all again for all the educational encouragement you post on here. It is very much appreciated by this ole fart.
God Bless.
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I never met a man I didn't like... will rodgers
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shadow
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Posted: Jun-09-2012 at 4:40am |
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THANX BOUNCE N PAPASMURF N THE OTHERS FOR ALL THE POSITIVE REMARKS --IF YOU DO THIS MISSION--ONE MUST ABIDE AND RIDE THE WAY IT IS LAID OUT. IT HAS WORKED FOR MANY YEARS. IS IT PERFECT-NO. BUT IT WORKS. WE HAVE GOTTEN BIG. ALOT BIGGER THAN WHEN I FIRST RODE 14YRS AGO. BUT IT IS SOMETHING ANY ONE CAN DO--IF YOU DEDICATE YOURSELF TO IT. AND AS I HAVE ALWAYS STATED--GET OUT AND RIDE -BEFORE RFTW. RIDE IN GROUPS--RIDE SIDE BY SIDE. BUT RIDE. GET SOME HOURS UNDER UR BUTT. AND IF YOU STILL FIND YOU CANNNOT RIDE IN A LARGE PACK. THEN RIDE BEHIND--BUT PLEASE DO THIS. DONT LET ANY THING KEEP YOU FROM IT--CUZ YOU WILL REGRET IT LATER. RFTW-2013--COMING SOON!!! GOD BLESS
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the Shadow
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n2thex wrote: